There you go. It was all OK until it impacted $$. Glad they finally did something, but wish it would have been based on an actual ethical concern.
this is one of the few levers of power we have. remember that every nickel they have comes from us working and us buying.
Free market morality.
To be fair, I think one could argue with a straight face that if we’re still buying the products, then we really don’t care that much. Why should a company be motivated by morality if we as a society collectively aren’t?
We should hold ourselves to the same standards or we’re just hypocrites.
If the only fridges on the market contain CFCs then people are going to buy them because they need fridges. If the only CFC-free fridges are more expensive than CFC ones then only affluent people, at most, are going to buy them.
It’s called a market failure: There are costs associated with a product that are not taken into account because the regulatory regime doesn’t make sure they are. In the case of CFCs we went even further than making fridge producers pay up for the externalities they cause (which would’ve been an astronomical sum) and right-out banned that stuff. The consumer, after all, is still saving money with CFC fridges (their food doesn’t spoil as easily), they’re not paying for the ozone hole, either.
See the free market is a theoretical model, it indeed promises prefect results given that all actors are perfectly rational and act on perfect information, the maths makes sense. Perfect rationality and information don’t exist in the real world, though (and in fact ads and company secrets exist to degrade the information available to everyone) so we need regulations to fix market failures so that the real-world market comes closer to approximating the free market. Misunderstanding of this point brought to you by peddlers of institutionalised market failure equivocating “free market” and “unregulated market”.
The EU tends to have a good grasp on it, the US, boy oh boy.
In principle I’m inclined to agree, however isn’t this glossing over the degree to which markets are consolidated?
You try to opt out of products/services and choose more ethical alternatives, but it turns out the most readily available alternatives are in some way connected to the same unethical parent company. Ultimately the individualistic approach to addressing these matters is untenable and requires collective action in some form (ideally it would be leveraging a government that reflects the interests of the people).
And those companies have spent a ton of time and effort discouraging and preventing people from collectivizing via union busting. There’s a huge power asymmetry at play here, an individual should not be held to the same standard of accountability as the people who literally control the economy through non-democratic or straight up unelected positions of leadership (board of investors or private CEOs respectively). They can, at any moment, choose to reduce their profit margin for the betterment of the planet - but they don’t, because as a small group of owners, they exist to profit so they would never agree to do so in a meaningful way*. And because they’re collectivised and we’re not (just look at the swathe of antitrust cases where businesses that are supposed to compete, have instead chosen to act like a cartel), they hold almost all the power. Let’s focus our attention away from blaming the average person, and onto the real root cause so that we can actually collectivise against that root cause rather than fight amongst each other.
*: without the state straight up socialising their risk, for example the green tech grants and loans we have been and are giving out, all over the world. Something Elon Musk is very familiar with, given that Tesla might not have existed today without the generous $465 million government loan they got in 2009.
“Opting out” doesn’t mean you “opt in” to whatever forced you to “opt out” to begin with.
If I give you a choice between being punched in the face or getting kicked in the crotch, it’s not moral acquiescence to either regardless which you choose.
Your argument rests on a fallacy- “vote with your wallet”. This presumes that we don’t vote with our voice anymore, so it supersedes a democratic system of governance.
Consider: “if you oppose slavery, just don’t buy slaves, and we’ll let the market sort out who’s right and wrong”
Your argument rests on a fallacy- “vote with your wallet”. This presumes that we don’t vote with our voice anymore, so it supersedes a democratic system of governance.
Meaning this genuinely, not in a snarky way: did you read to the end of my comment? My phrasing may have been poor or a tad wordy, but I recognize what you’re describing and advise collective, political action instead of voting with one’s wallet.
The parenthetical at the end wasn’t to suggest otherwise, only that doing so via one’s existing/current government may not be a readily available option, demanding one change their government so as to make it work to those ends. I should have been clearer on that point.
No, I don’t think you could, because you don’t really have a choice.
I find this naive cynicism exasperating.
“Let’s improve society somewhat.”
“Yet, you partake in society! Curious! / sent from my iPhone”
Sent from graphene but sure
Supply side ethics
Tesla batteries and modular car battery charging systems incoming, they’re not going to give up their market foothold so easily now that they’ve got their foot in the door.
These people have money for blood, what makes you think their ethics are any different? I don’t care what sets the face eating leopards off so long as they get to eating faces.
Expecting investors to behave ethically instead of in their financial interest? I see you’re feeling bold today
I don’t expect people making bank to have many ethical concerns, tbh.
“It’s just one small thing. Besides, there are many other things to complain about!” said every investor tied to everything people complain about, probably.
This is capitalism. There is no place for “actual ethical concern.”
I’m waiting for Apple and Google to pull the X client from their app stores.
Then the fun really begins.
Not going to happen as all these companies work together. these companies are notorious to trick regulars into thinking they are helping the society.
-
SocialMediaPlatform™ does something horrible
-
Make a huge deal about pulling ads from SocialMediaPlatform™ to get consumers on your side
-
Quietly return ads to SocialMediaPlatform™ after PR team determines everyone has forgotten
-
SocialMediaPlatform™ does something even worse
-
GOTO 2
Lol so true. Its not just Twitter though, most of the companies do the same thing. However its on us to not make noise and boycott the shit outta these companies.
-
Why don’t people just stop caring about whatever the fuck is going on at Twitter/X? I consider it in the same realm as truthsocial or OANN comment sections. Sure, musky had enough money to buy a platform, but that platform is elevated by it’s users. If people just stopped doing that, it would be irrelevant. Literally nothing important has happened on twitter, ever. We don’t need it. Just discard it and let it wither in the dark.
Panem et circem.
Meet the circem.
They keep the panem.
something would have to be seriously wrong for that to happen
In the EU, App stores already have a legal responsibility to remove apps that promote hate speech. While both Google and Apple are sitting on the sidelines while the EU is going through the legal motions to tear Musk a new one, I wouldn’t be surprised if they kick X out just before someone forces them too, just to pretend they actually care.
Just in time for the EU to also force third party app stores through, and X attempting to make one sounds plausible even if they get nowhere with it.
[gestures vaguely]
They already have no problem pulling other apps for shit that Xitter is known to pull. Even when said other apps have a similar lack of control (or even less) over said content.
And the users will migrate into the welcoming arms of the 粪 client instead.
I hate billionaire nazis
but you repeat yourself.
All billionaires are cunts. All Nazis are cunts. Not all billionaires are Nazis.
Yeah soros is a Holocaust survivor
That’s some fucked up shit to go through.
T Swizzle seems relatively cool, but every rule has its exceptions
I think Mark Cuban is okay. He seems like your typical rich guy, but not your typical billionaire.
Musk can a smoke fat dick. I am so sick of hearing about that cunt.
Can we just fully cancel his ass so we don’t have to hear about him any more. I yearn for the day I no longer hear about Musk or Trump on a daily basis.
We let people get so fucking rich that everything they do is newsworthy because it actually impacts a ton of people.
The real problem is that we don’t actually need rich people in the first place.
This story highlights why news about this is still important. The investors wouldn’t be doing this if they thought a lot of people wouldn’t hear about it and be disgusted.
I couldn’t care less about whatever else he does, but when he does something awful, spread it as much as you can. We can see very clearly that not all news is good news for him. And one thing I do want to see is him discovering the consequences of his action, for once in his life.
And he’ll never go away, ever. As long as he has munny he will be a thorn in everyones side, he cannot simply be voted out like a politician sadly
Or—and please, sit down before you read any further—the media could…stop reporting every single thing he says. [thunder crashes. children scream.]
True. I do have a feeling like he’ll get caught doing some fucked up shit and will go to jail but with all the money , its really hard to tell if he’ll ever go to jail as jails are for poor people. Trump is the best example. Hope he rots in jail but I doubt it
Nah he’ll just be forced to sell some shares before a big profit or they’ll arrange a boardroom coup to take away some of his autonomy, CEOs be warned, acting out like too much of a wildcard can appear self destructive and irrational to investors and shareholders alike
Couldn’t agree more. He’s all over the news all the time, but Lemmy seems especially obsessed with him. I understand, given the demographics here, but I wish he would just go away forever
Meh that seems like all social media tbh
The fucking prick really needs to learn to shut the fuck up for a change… And like yesterday.
I cant wait too see his ass in court for some crime hes been caught doing
Oh yeah… hadn’t even thought about it but you’re right… That seems likely over a long enough timeline.
Rich people dont experience justice…
“We are absolutely appalled at this behavior!” [Buys more stock in Tesla] “I mean really, this has gone too far!” [Collects dividends] “He needs to resign, this is disgusting!” [Watches stock price climb] “this antisemitism must stop or else!” [Buys more stock]
In the interest of pedantry; TSLA doesn’t declare dividends.
Tesla Investors Call for Musk’s Suspension
They’ll quickly find themselves in the same position as the GOP with Trump. Where they want to replace him and cut their losses but the cult of personality is around that one person and nothing else. That’s what happens when your audience is so cult-like and fanatical. Not that I feel bad for either the GOP or Tesla obviously, it’s still their fault for cultivating these bastards and they don’t deserve the slightest sympathy.
Or just that Elon’s shares are big enough that he can dictate what happens
Musk finally end that step too far. Dude forgot there’s a world out there beyond the weird right-wing bubble he’s created for himself on X.
Personally I think the only reason for this action is the Swedish Unions blockade.
I think they’d have let him be as shitty as he wanted for as long as he wanted if not for their profits being impacted.
I’m sure his response will be doubling down and turning away more investors. But if that goofy fucking truck being shit, delayed, and possibly a scam didn’t dissuade them…
Melon Husk ranting about “cancel culture” in 3…2…1…
Suspend him from where?
From a ridiculously slow lowering mechanism above a tank full of sharks with frickin’ laser beams on their heads.
I wouldn’t even mind if we could only get particularly aggressive sea bass
I’m good with ill tempered or terribly vexed.
these investors can say what they want, but the only language musk speaks is money. Sell the shares, dump the stock price.
I can’t wait till Tesla falls apart like the house of cards it is.
Tons of people gave Tesla a $250,000 interest-free loan in the form of pre-ordering the roadster that was supposed to be released two years ago. People are going to remember that and think twice before pre-ordering the next big car release
They sell vaporware, let’s be real. Cybertruck is going to be a huge disaster calling it now
people are going to remember that
I really would doubt that unfortunately
Seems like IBM, Apple and Tesla all believe the Boer is a detriment to their brand.
BirdChan is turning into a shit show and the blast radius is very large. When you pretend to be smart and savvy catching up to you in a very large and glaringly painful way.
…but American jews are mostly white…
I’m so confused.
Whiteness is arbitrary and can be withdrawn pretty fast. That’s part of the problem, white isn’t a race, it’s an ingroup.
Ask a Catholic how quickly they can be exempted from white club.
That’s race in general too, same thing happens with mixed black people who grew up in an affluent white context.
Race is basically “made real” through racism, which is largely dependent on economic relations. Our modern notion of race didn’t really develop until the 1700s. To me being anti-racist is about criticizing the notion of race itself, with the understanding that it’s been made in to a real construct that has power through racism.
Muslims used to be considered pretty white before 9/11, Italians used to not be considered white in the early 1900s.
Race is a construct, homie
You’re right. And before anyone rebuts, Irish and Italian weren’t considered “white”.
It was really a class distinction at first, the landed gentry used it to justify and explain their position in society. As empires expanded and exploited more territories it gained power as an explanatory framework for why some people were just destined to be worse off.
Ok, well I’ll just tell this to the next black kid in my town who’s shot at because they rang the wrong doorbell. “Have you tried meditation?”
Iirc, there was a black American woman whose land sat on an oilfield. I think either she got royalty or sold the land for profit. She was then led to sit in the train with other whites, as she deserves such treatment for a “white woman” according to the conductor.
The world is a lot more shit yet nuanced at the same time than you’d realise.
I would like to get a source on that, I have never heard of it before. In any case if that actually happened then it was A) a pretty extreme statistical outlier, or B) some scheme to get her to sign the papers.
Race has power even if it doesn’t really exist, just like God. It’s been reified/made real through the practice of racism. Barbara and Karen Fields call this Racecraft, in their book of the same name.
Karen Fields calls this Racecraft
My mind immediately pictured a racist version of minecraft.
“In biological taxonomy, race is an informal rank in the taxonomic hierarchy for which various definitions exist. Sometimes it is used to denote a level below that of subspecies, while at other times it is used as a synonym for subspecies. It has been used as a higher rank than strain, with several strains making up one race.”
I think the debate should instead be about which strain we belong to.
“Race is bullshit!”
“Oh ya? Then how do you explain this bullshit about Race?!”
I’m saying race has a very real effect on people’s lives. It exists.
“Race is a construct” and “race doesn’t exist” are two very different statements.
I’m saying
racebigotry has a very real effect on people’s lives. It exists.FTFY
Doesn’t change anything, it’s possible to identify with constructs, such as being gay, seeing that nobody seems to be “just” gay anymore, and it’s more on the line of a spectrum. Where is the line drawn for any semantic definition?
Jews are only white when it’s convenient.
I mean, I tan pretty well, and I’ve got pretty big lips for a white boy, but day to day, I have light skin, blue eyes, and light brown hair.
Doesn’t matter, if your ancestors touched the Mediterranean then your white status can be revoked. Only the North Sea gets permanent membership.
I’m Polish, and they only begrudgingly accept us as white.
About the only good thing investors have ever done
If you don’t get in line Musk, I’ll feed you to the peasant rats!
The peasant rats:
